Rock and roll, lifestyle and the working class

[Richard Harvey]

They buy into the image and fashion of it all.

Exactly. Countless times I've heard 50s fans (I won't call them rock 'n' roll fans) dismiss things such as The Rolling Stones performing Chuck Berry songs as "unauthentic", yet (to them) "True Love Ways" by Buddy Holly is rock 'n' roll... I like them both, but I know which one I would call rock 'n' roll!

Good example. You're listening to the music, whereas a blinkered r&r fan just sees the name 'The Rolling Stones' and shuts down. Yet the Stones in the sixties did more for the popularity of 50's rock & roll than many of the original 50's stars did.

[martin bates]

ok- ; there's a few sweeping generalisations in your last couple of posts .....but you have a good perspective of the diffeent types of gigs - I've noted from your posts before , you do get out & about a lot. This has probably run it's course for me;
just one anecdote - we were on holiday years ago at Disney in Florida and loads of people we noticed were wearing red. We thought it was some special Disney day or something, but it turned out it was a Gay Pride day & people wore red to support it. A couple of days later we were in a different park & we got on a ski lift up to the top of a ride; the lift seated 3 people. Monica & our 2 girls got on an empty car & I got on the next one with 2 guys. We started having a chat & they soon noticed my accent, asked how we were enjoying the holiday etc. I said we were having a great time (which was true!) and that the parks wer brilliant - just one day was really busy where there were loads of people out for the Gay Pride thing. Oh yea, one of the guys said, we were the ones in the red shirts !

Martin.

Even so, for people actively homophobic , is it disproportionate on the scene than in the general population ? I don't know.
Martin.

I was at a music festival last weekend, there were 20,000 there. I could just tell by the newspapers I saw them reading that the vast, vast majority were left wing. And I think people that are interested in the arts generally are. Music fans and certainly musicians, are often open minded sorts. So when I go to a rock & roll evening, (and I don't jive, I don't wear the gear, I only go to see the bands), I'm often struck by what a different crowd it is from other gigs I go to.
For instance, there's folk clubs in almost every large town or city in the UK, just like there are R&R clubs. I bet if you could take a poll, you'd find most people who go to Folk Clubs are left-wingers, and most that go to R&R clubs are right-wingers.

All you'd need to do is say "hands up who reads the Sun". That's usually a good barometer of someone's social conscience.

[Piet]

Being old enough to know I'de say a Rock 'n Roll fan in the beginning was a fan of the real Rock 'n Roll music before 1960.(also Cliff)
When the Beatles started, they played the Rock 'n Roll music the've heard when they grew up and, yes, i was a fan of them but
when they switched over to other (terrible) music (Sgt. Pepper etc.) is was over for me and a lot other fans.
The Stones fans were more the artistic type of people, in any case not the Rock 'n Roll fans like we were.
About Buddy Holly, he's always been Rock 'n Roll, not because of his music but more his style and the time his music was in the hitparade.
Even Brenda Lee, Wanda Jackson and Connie Francis were Rock 'n Roll singers.(and they looked that way too)

[Richard Harvey]

When the Beatles started, they played the Rock 'n Roll music the've heard when they grew up and, yes, i was a fan of them but
when they switched over to other (terrible) music (Sgt. Pepper etc.) is was over for me and a lot other fans.

I've never seen the words 'terrible music' and 'Sgt Pepper' in the same sentence before!

[Piet]

Now that's what a RnR fan from that time thought about the switch over from the Fab 4, it was Bad 4 from that time on

[Richard Harvey]

Now that's what a RnR fan from that time thought about the switch over from the Fab 4, it was Bad 4 from that time on

See I'm just thinking when the Beatles started making their best music, you decided to stop listening Piet.

It's not up to any of us to tell anyone else what music they SHOULD like. That's bollocks. But I do like to discuss this stuff. Are there any none 'American Roots' albums you like Piet? (And by 'American Roots' I mean r&r, country, Blues etc).

[PeterC]

Now that's what a RnR fan from that time thought about the switch over from the Fab 4, it was Bad 4 from that time on

See I'm just thinking when the Beatles started making their best music, you decided to stop listening Piet.

I'm largely with Piet on this one; I love pretty much everything The Beatles did up until 1966, and dislike most of what they did afterwards. Give me 'Please Please Me' over 'Hey Jude' any day!

Their greatest album is without a doubt 'A Hard Day's Night' (the only album comprised entirely of Lennon-McCartney songs and the only album where Ringo doesn't attempt to sing!). Just good, unpretentious 2 & 1/2 minute pop songs.

[PeterC]

For instance, there's folk clubs in almost every large town or city in the UK, just like there are R&R clubs.

Not around here there isn't. Sure, we have the occasional "oldies" artists playing the theatres, but there's no clubs where acts like Linda Gail Lewis can play in this part of Kent (there's a BIG folk scene though, including the annual Folk Week in Broadstairs about 3 miles from where I live, also a thriving jazz scene... not that any of those interest me much).

[Richard Harvey]

For instance, there's folk clubs in almost every large town or city in the UK, just like there are R&R clubs.

Not around here there isn't. Sure, we have the occasional "oldies" artists playing the theatres, but there's no clubs where acts like Linda Gail Lewis can play in this part of Kent (there's a BIG folk scene though, including the annual Folk Week in Broadstairs about 3 miles from where I live, also a thriving jazz scene... not that any of those interest me much).

Hmmm .... I go to jazz clubs and folk clubs regularly. I also think the Beatles did their best stuff after '65, without doubt.

I see a pattern emerging! Haha!

[Piet]

Well Richard, since I've seen you with that big bag in Amsterdam I guess you like the music that goes with it
No Rock 'n Roll is different than rock music and, as Peter says, the best music is prior to the Stones/Beatles era.
Give me a band who payes a couple of instrumental tunes before they goes off with the Rock 'n Roll tunes.
The only thing I needed back then was some slow songs to hold my baby

[Piet]

Now that's what a RnR fan from that time thought about the switch over from the Fab 4, it was Bad 4 from that time on

See I'm just thinking when the Beatles started making their best music, you decided to stop listening Piet.

It's not up to any of us to tell anyone else what music they SHOULD like. That's bollocks. But I do like to discuss this stuff. Are there any none 'American Roots' albums you like Piet? (And by 'American Roots' I mean r&r, country, Blues etc).

This topic is about Rock 'n Roll so if I talk about Rock 'n Roll I mean Rock 'n Roll and not sorts of music that;s beeing called Rock 'n Roll.
Give me Cliff Richard from his beginning until 1965 (with the Shadows of coursde), PJ Proby, The Rockin Berries but also The Ivy League.

[Richard Harvey]

. Are there any none 'American Roots' albums you like Piet? (And by 'American Roots' I mean r&r, country, Blues etc).

This topic is about Rock 'n Roll so if I talk about Rock 'n Roll I mean Rock 'n Roll and not sorts of music that;s beeing called Rock 'n Roll.
Give me Cliff Richard from his beginning until 1965 (with the Shadows of coursde), PJ Proby, The Rockin Berries but also The Ivy League.

Okay. I was just trying to find out if you liked any other music than 'Americana'. But if you only want to talk about rock & roll that's fine too. X

[Piet]

. Are there any none 'American Roots' albums you like Piet? (And by 'American Roots' I mean r&r, country, Blues etc).

This topic is about Rock 'n Roll so if I talk about Rock 'n Roll I mean Rock 'n Roll and not sorts of music that;s beeing called Rock 'n Roll.
Give me Cliff Richard from his beginning until 1965 (with the Shadows of coursde), PJ Proby, The Rockin Berries but also The Ivy League.

Okay. I was just trying to find out if you liked any other music than 'Americana'. But if you only want to talk about rock & roll that's fine too. X

No my friend, I don't wanne talk about RnR only, I mean that's my kind of music that's what I grew up with.
Sorry Richard, you're just born too late (otherwise you would be retired now)

[PeterC]

I personally listen to and enjoy music from all eras and in many genres, but I'm basically a pop music fan. I can't listen to too much "serious" music, nor hard rock these days... and when I do listen to "rock" it tends to have a "pop" edge to it (ie Queen rather than Led Zeppelin, and The Boomtown Rats rather than The Clash).

Today I've been listening to the New Seekers and Del Shannon, both who crafted commercial and enjoyable pop songs that probably didn't change the world too much. As for "Americana", I tend to be more of an Anglophile (particularly for music made after the 50s & early 60s) though again there's plenty of exceptions such as Motown, surf, folk-rock, etc.

[wolfgangguhl]

This topic is about Rock 'n Roll so if I talk about Rock 'n Roll I mean Rock 'n Roll and not sorts of music that;s beeing called Rock 'n Roll.
Give me Cliff Richard from his beginning until 1965 (with the Shadows of coursde), PJ Proby, The Rockin Berries but also The Ivy League.

Okay. I was just trying to find out if you liked any other music than 'Americana'. But if you only want to talk about rock & roll that's fine too. X

No my friend, I don't wanne talk about RnR only, I mean that's my kind of music that's what I grew up with.
Sorry Richard, you're just born too late (otherwise you would be retired now)

And a frustrated bitter old man...