Talking about that Old Time Religion



Postby peterchecksfield » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:10 am

Tim & Nicolaas, good to read your thoughts on this! While I'm not a Christian as such, I still believe in a higher power or "God".
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Postby nicolaas » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:36 am

I also think going to church (and everything surrounding church) and believing in God are two different things.
I think people believe in God in many different ways, that's why so many different churches are around. In the little Dutch town i live are many different churches while their bible and story are all the same, people see little differences and start their own church. But now I may be going off topic in this off topic-topic.

I think these days people need scientific proof for everything before they believe it. But that's all about belief. It's not the evidence what is needed.
But as i stated before you can experience God helping you, and being near you. i can tell stories about my experiences with God, but i dont think anyone is waiting for that.
So when you believe in God you will experience Him.
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Postby Tony Papard » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:46 am

Tim in St. Louis wrote:
Richard Harvey wrote:
peterchecksfield wrote:A bit like Santa Claus...
The one difference of course is that the adults know they are lying about Santa Claus, but they feel that they're right when teaching their religion (& just maybe they are right?!). So why shouldn't a parent teach a child what they think is right or wrong?


Because they are most likely wrong.

There's no more evidence for Santa than there is for a omniprescent sky god. But because the parents have been taught to believe, they think it's right to teach their kids. It's on-going. If it doesn't stop, it won't.

And, it fucks kids up.


Richard --

I would like to repsectfully disagree...

If I were to give you all the parts to a watch in a box and gave you the rest of your life to shake that box and open it every 60 seconds, at what point do you think you could open that box and find the watch put together and fully functional? The same with a car engine or a house.

So while we can't explain or likely ever know how "God" got here, there's way too much intelligent design evidence on earth and in the comos to think it all happened by accident.

Regards,
Tim


You have a good point there, Tim. Of course there's intelligence behind the design of living organisms, etc.. Whether you call it 'God' or something else, I can't believe it is all the result of accident, natural selection and evolution. The idea is preposterous.

On the other hand, many of us have difficultly in believing in some all-knowing Being who had to go thru billions of years of evolution to produce humans.

The truth may well be that there is intelligent design behind things, but it is very different to what religion describes as 'God'. Perhaps some form of consciousness or conscious energy which learns as it develops, constantly evolving. We and all life forms are essentially this conscious energy going thru the process of evolution.

Until we know what consciousness is, and where it originates (certainly not in the brain, scientists are discovering) we won't get any answers.

'God', if you like, is still learning and evolving.
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Postby nicolaas » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:56 am

On the other hand, many of us have difficultly in believing in some all-knowing Being who had to go thru billions of years of evolution to produce humans.


Tony, i agree with you all people are different and thinking different about things, that's what i meant with the churches, people within the churches also think different about lots of things, so its a very difficult thing i guess.
But when you believe in God you should let God lead you, and not the church or other people.

The believing in an all-knowing Being is a biblical fact and the billions of years of evolution is a scientific theory, i dont think these match very well.

By the way, it was your haircut-topic mention what got me on this topic.
You really got a great coupe of hair way back man. That was in 1970?
Man, that was 4 years before I was born.
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Postby Tony Papard » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:25 pm

nicolaas wrote:
On the other hand, many of us have difficultly in believing in some all-knowing Being who had to go thru billions of years of evolution to produce humans.


Tony, i agree with you all people are different and thinking different about things, that's what i meant with the churches, people within the churches also think different about lots of things, so its a very difficult thing i guess.
But when you believe in God you should let God lead you, and not the church or other people.

The believing in an all-knowing Being is a biblical fact and the billions of years of evolution is a scientific theory, i dont think these match very well.

By the way, it was your haircut-topic mention what got me on this topic.
You really got a great coupe of hair way back man. That was in 1970?
Man, that was 4 years before I was born.


Why would an all-knowing Being/God have to go thru the laborious process of evolution, that's the point? And very little in the Bible is fact, it is a series of myths, much in the New Testament borrowed from older pagan religions. Not only that, it has been edited, altered, translated, added to, etc. over the centuries. It is a right old mish-mash in fact.

Even the Gospels (written years after Jesus died by the way) can't agree whether he was born in a house or a stable. Some don't mention his birth at all, certainly not to a virgin. This is taken from pagan religions.

Oh the haircut - it was 1972.
Long ago in Ferriday down in Louisiana, They all watched Jerry play and pump that old piana

My blog: http://www.tonypapard.info/

My Jerry Lee Lewis page:
http://www.btinternet.com/~tony.papard/JERRYLEELEWIS.HTM
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Postby Richard Harvey » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:55 pm

Tim in St. Louis wrote:So while we can't explain or likely ever know how "God" got here, there's way too much intelligent design evidence on earth and in the comos to think it all happened by accident.

Regards,
Tim


You're right, it wasn't accident, it was evolution. Fascinating, isn't it?
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Re: Die hard Christians

Postby Richard Harvey » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:17 am

I think its a shame people are judging other people's religion while not being religious for themselves.

Which is like saying you can't judge music unless you're a musician, or can't judge a dog race unless you're a greyhound.

The discussion about kids i think is ridiculous as for religion, believing in God is something you really beleive. There fore you educate your children in that way. When you do not believe in God, you also educate your children telling them there is no God. So you decide for them too, its the same to me.

If you beleive in the christian god, then you must know that all those kids who don't believe in god are going to hell then?

But kids have to be fed, the same goes for religion, they have to be thought.

Do you mean taught here?

Brainwashed is the word anyway.

And not only kids, but i will try to not start preaching the gospel over here as that is not my point.
When i was younger and we went to church, it wasnt always the thing i wanted to do, but that goes for a lot of things. Then when you get older you experience the closeness of God, the helping out when im in trouble.
I maybe was pretty late in experiencing that, but i have a daughter of 10 who believes in God and i think i can learn of her, her faith is so strong i dont know the words to tell this but its exceptional. I also do have stepson (15yrs), which says he doesnt believe in God. Off course thats possible, and nobody is forcing him to believe anything.


He's off to hell as well then.

Saying Christians are fucked up, does bring us back to Hitler who said Jews where fucked up?

So anyone that says anyone is 'fucked up' is comparable to Hitler?

Was Charles Manson fucked up, in your opinion? (can you see my point here. . )

But in the end there's just One you should have your expectations on...

And there it is, the same old sanctimonious dogma telling us what we should be believing.
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Postby Richard Harvey » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:27 am

Tony Papard wrote:, I can't believe it is all the result of accident, natural selection and evolution. The idea is preposterous.


Tony, you can't hold with the idea of evolution, though the proof is all around us, yet you believe Princess Di is emailing you from beyond the grave?
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Postby peterchecksfield » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:39 am

Richard Harvey wrote:
Tony Papard wrote:, I can't believe it is all the result of accident, natural selection and evolution. The idea is preposterous.


Tony, you can't hold with the idea of evolution, though the proof is all around us, yet you believe Princess Di is emailing you from beyond the grave?


Tony didn't say that he doesn't believe in evolution, he said that he doesn't believe that it is all down to evolution, & I agree with him.

I also believe that the dead can & do contact us. I know I've been contacted by dead people many times.
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Postby Richard Harvey » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:46 am

peterchecksfield wrote:I also believe that the dead can & do contact us. I know I've been contacted by dead people many times.


I'm all ears . . .
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Postby peterchecksfield » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:09 am

Richard Harvey wrote:
peterchecksfield wrote:I also believe that the dead can & do contact us. I know I've been contacted by dead people many times.


I'm all ears . . .


I don't hear them, nor do I see them. I feel that they're there.
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Postby Tony Papard » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:51 am

peterchecksfield wrote:
Richard Harvey wrote:
Tony Papard wrote:, I can't believe it is all the result of accident, natural selection and evolution. The idea is preposterous.


Tony, you can't hold with the idea of evolution, though the proof is all around us, yet you believe Princess Di is emailing you from beyond the grave?


Tony didn't say that he doesn't believe in evolution, he said that he doesn't believe that it is all down to evolution, & I agree with him.

I also believe that the dead can & do contact us. I know I've been contacted by dead people many times.


Peter's correct, I most certainly DO believe in evolution. Everything is evolving, but intelligence is involved too.

Mind or consciousness exists separately from the brain, this is what is becoming increasingly apparent. We are much more than our physical bodies.

Yes, I too have been contacted in many remarkable ways by my deceased partner, my father, maternal grandmother and even two pet cats. The contact with my partner is ongoing.

As to Diana, it is not the emails which convince me but the hours of Internet podcast interviews and two phone calls I've had with her via her voice channel Andrew Russell-Davis.

A fake would have slipped up long ago, and been caught out. And all the interviews are available on the Internet free, so he's not making money out of it, just setting himself up for being called a 'nutter' or worse. Radio stations and now a film to be released later this year feature post-humous Diana interviews, so this is breaking into the wider media and more people will be able to judge for themselves.

None of this is that surprising to those of us aware of the latest scientific evidence for ADC (After Death Communications) and ITC (Instrumental TransCommunication) which dispenses with the need for human mediums as communication with the Other Side is being developed with great successes in the form of voices and pictures via electronic means.

I predict in the next 50-100 years organized religion and Einsteinian orthodox science will both be rocked to their very foundations, which is why there is such resistance to some of the latest quantum theories and ADC evidence from the scientific establishment. New theories are always regarded as heresy, until proven to be correct.

The quantum sub-atomic world is very strange and doesn't obey the normal laws of physics we are familiar with. Something is wrong with these, and Einstein himself recognized this fact before his death. The elusive Unified Field Theory he was searching for would explain all things parnormal, including 'life after death' and where consciousness originates.

Quantum theorists like Ronald Pearson, B.Sc. believe they have found it, and he has had his mathematical formulae published in Russia and many other countries. It will take time for such Earth-shaking theories to be accepted worldwide. Vested interests in organized religion and orthodox science cannot suppress this knowledge and evidence forever.
Last edited by Tony Papard on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Long ago in Ferriday down in Louisiana, They all watched Jerry play and pump that old piana

My blog: http://www.tonypapard.info/

My Jerry Lee Lewis page:
http://www.btinternet.com/~tony.papard/JERRYLEELEWIS.HTM
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Just my two little cents

Postby catmom68 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:53 am

I am reminded of a PBS special years back of the first documentary done when China allowed Westerners in. During the course of the program, they entered a village many, many miles away from the City. The village was very excited to welcome the reporter and the camera, and they rushed them to the village elder...He was so very kind and welcoming, and he wanted to ask some questions of his own to these strangers...

One of those questions was this- "Tell me about this Jesus Christ kid?" (J.C. was considered a "newcomer" in comparison to the age of their religous beliefs and culture). After I saw this documentary, I was much more comfortable in my belief that everyone should have their own path and choice. I simply do not agree with predators in any religion..I don't care if your chasing spirits, just don't promise a mourning person you'll put them in touch with their loved ones for a million bucks...That is the very same thing...to me...
Oh, and yes, I DID tell my children there was a Santa....lol- And the Tooth Fairy....

Hugs,
Marla
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Re: Just my two little cents

Postby Tony Papard » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:59 am

catmom68 wrote:I am reminded of a PBS special years back of the first documentary done when China allowed Westerners in. During the course of the program, they entered a village many, many miles away from the City. The village was very excited to welcome the reporter and the camera, and they rushed them to the village elder...He was so very kind and welcoming, and he wanted to ask some questions of his own to these strangers...

One of those questions was this- "Tell me about this Jesus Christ kid?" (J.C. was considered a "newcomer" in comparison to the age of their religous beliefs and culture). After I saw this documentary, I was much more comfortable in my belief that everyone should have their own path and choice. I simply do not agree with predators in any religion..I don't care if your chasing spirits, just don't promise a mourning person you'll put them in touch with their loved ones for a million bucks...That is the very same thing...to me...
Oh, and yes, I DID tell my children there was a Santa....lol- And the Tooth Fairy....

Hugs,
Marla


The Jimmy Swaggart telecast, before he was denied access to the Assembly of God transmitters and satellites because of his transgressions, was broadcast in the People's Republic of China. But he couldn't get it on to the BBC!
Long ago in Ferriday down in Louisiana, They all watched Jerry play and pump that old piana

My blog: http://www.tonypapard.info/

My Jerry Lee Lewis page:
http://www.btinternet.com/~tony.papard/JERRYLEELEWIS.HTM
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Explanations

Postby catmom68 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:04 am

Tony;

Maybe that explains why these folks had only heard gossip that far out? I never really thought about how they heard in the first place, but that does shed some light on it...

I love John Edwards by the way. My husband Joe, that passed always gave me alot of b.s. about watching him, but I enjoy his road shows alot....especially when he brings many different mediums along. Never close your mind, I always say...
Hugs,
Marla
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